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Scarecrow
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PostSubject: Diablerie   Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:41 pm

I'm wondering if it's possible to implement Diablerie into the game?... Maybe even code it, so that every time you drink the blood of another vampire, you gain some experience, but at the cost of massive loss of humanity points?
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:04 pm

Yeah, I suggested something like that to Zer0 a few months ago. Maybe when he is done with the most important things, he will have the time to look into it.
Although I think that the player should not be able to diablerie more than one opponent. It should be more like a quest in the latest stages of the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:33 pm

Well my plan for Diablerie was going to be exclusive to only the Assamite characters, and they would have to have a low enough Humanity to even do it.

The NPC (forgot his name) who was selling secrets to the writer in Hollywood was going to be a potential Diablerie victim, IF you were Assamite and IF you had a low enough Humanity. I wasn't planning on making Diablerie a quest or really add XP or extra benefits to it, but then again my decision on this wasn't set in stone either.

I'm open to suggestions and ideas on how to handle Diablerie.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:14 pm

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PostSubject: hehehe   Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:05 pm

If you diablerize your sire, even with the intervention of Nines you could be saved kkk your sire have broken one tradition, and you have broken an tradition worse than the sire's... that would be unreal
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:29 am

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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:39 am

Zer0, I don't think it is worth to diablerie a thin blood. You would gain too less in cost of too much. As far as I remember diableriezers have a special (black if I'm not mistaken) aura and most of the vampires feel quite uneasy around them. So if you are to diablerie an opponent it should probably be after Lacroix has put a blood hunt on your head.
The vampire that you diablerie should be strong enough to offer you power, and if possible the quest should make you go only for "No alleagence ending" or if new endins are possible "Me versus everyone ending".
I don't think that Strauss or Nines will even look at you if you diablerie anyone.
Although Ming Xao might still decide to use you Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:31 am

I agree with Yami, if your diablerie got out, not even Nines would accept you any more. Something like that would probably even be a reason for the prince and Isaak to work together, to get the diablerizer down.
Well, for the diablerizer ending we could reuse the theatre scene from the intro.

- geek
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:01 am

Should we take diablerie completely out of TFN then. Technically Assamite Vizier don't have the need to commit diablerie as a clan flaw, only the Assamite Warriors have that. Assamite Viziers flaw are their dedication to their art or craft.

I wasn't looking at diablerie to be a big part of TFN anyways, just a simple side thing the Assamite player could do if he/she wanted to play an evil based character.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:34 am

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PostSubject: How about ...   Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:31 am

diablerie in the endgame only? maybe lacroix, nines or strauss could be diablerized
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:02 am

than one of the eddings must go or make them to be able to drain every one of them with the different ending
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:46 pm

Frankly, i always though you should be able to diablerize ALL vampire enemies,to give the game a more sandbox feeling, and i really want to be able to diablerize someone in TFN,

So i have some suggestions:

1) Make diablerizing possible only the non-bosses vampires, like the sabbat,ventrue and the giovanni dudes. You would feed on them normally(but it would be harder than to do it on a human), but instead of blood points you would receive XP (only 1 per diablerie) and in return you would suffer major damage(and humanity loss), so that you don't use it often in combat heavy areas. It would also take a lot of time to drain them (like the santa monica drug dealer, ever tried feeding from him? major time to kill him that way) so it cannot be used in the middle of the combat against various opponents. When these minor vamps lose all their health, they should become "dazed" instead of trully dead, so you could only feed on them after you defeated them, or you should cast a discipline to keep them dazed, or only if you stealth on them, or all of the above Very Happy

2) Make diablerizing possible only to the vampire bosses. Like, everytime you kill a vamp boss, instead of them meeting their final death, they get "dazed" like they were hitted by dominatie or something, and/or a dialog option appears, saying "Finish Him" and you could chose to simply kill them,leave them to die, or diablerize them . Then you have the choice do diablerize them and gain XP, or simply finish them off right there.

3) Combine the two above, making possible do diablerize all vampire enemies in the game. Very Happy

4) Making possible only to diablerize Lacroix at endgame.(different ending or not, to diablerize others powerful vampires you would need to have a different ending.)

5)Making possible to diablerize only a certain vampire allies(maybe through a quest). Like you could seduce Therese/Jeanette or VV and diablerize them. Or help Ash escape(or in The Society of Leopold encounter) and then diablerize him. Maybe seduce and diablerize Damsel? =P

6) Beign able to diablerize only the thin-bloods and/or ghouls. You would receive more xp than doing their quests, but in return, lot's of humanity loss

I don't know the dificulty of doing this, although i think that letting the undead boss die and then respawn an equal one who is dazed and diablerizable(with or without dialog options) would be easier than to cancel their deaths when their hp get's to zero and put them on dazed state. Or you could increase their hp's and make them dazed and diablerizable after a certain hp and make them invulnerable to common damage for a few seconds, so that one does not kill them by mistake if originally planning to diablerize them. And then put the dialog option(or not) .

Even if you guys have other plans for diablerie, i really recommend it to:
1)Give no blood points, XP instead, and only after the target has been completly drained(dunno if that's possible)
2)Cause a good amount of damage to the diablerizer, just so one does not use it everytime against vampires(ever used Trance+Feed to kill an entire group of humans? Or Obfuscate + Feed? Just to avoid that)
3) Cause humanity loss(duh)
4)Take a good deal of time to diablerize, putting the targets with tons of blood to be drained. (if "1" is not possible, then it will also give tons of blood points, to show that vamp blood is far more potent than human one)

Maybe it could be a quest you receive from a certain npc in where you "advance"(and receive XP) everytime you diablerize someone? Of course there would be a cap (let's say, 20 diableries). Or put a cap somewhere unbelivably high so the quest could really never be completed.(let's say, 500 diableries. There's far fewer than 500 vamp enemies in the game). The npc could also give the quests to diablerize Jeanette, VV, Ash, Damsel, the thin bloods, Knox, etc.. (see options "5" and "6")

I think that also there should be another punishment for diablerie. Because a diablerer and a "good" vampire would have a very high difference in xp. So maybe you could creep the vendors out, some quests givers would refuse to give you their quests,persuasion and seduction (but not intimidation) would be far harder, you lose stats in appearance and charisma everytime you diablerize, etc...Even thought there is that "sacrifice" to be good(beign evil is more easy) so maybe that huge xp difference would be justified Razz Would it be possible to put camarilla vampires to track you down and attack you, kind of an inverted hunter?

Weather you use my suggenstions or not, or even if they're not possible to be made, i would only like to thank TFN makers for allowing such a great game to keep on living Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:19 am

I really think, Diablerie should not be allowed at all. You can bet your undead ass that you are watched by Strauss, and in Hollywood by Isaak. And both clans have Auspex, so a diablerizer would soon be known to them. And as I stated before, a diablerizer running around in LA would be the one thing that can get all the factions (except for the Sabbat) united to hunt him down. And of course Gary would be the first to know, so your game would end as soon as you try to enter his territory.
As for diablerizing thinbloods, that would gain you nothing at all, except for being a diablerizer and hunted down by any "civilized" kindred.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:24 am

Maybe we can overlook that part history-wise in order to be a little more free game-wise? :3
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:17 am

Well my stance on the Diablerie issue is this… First off I want to stay as close to lore as possible, secondly Assamite Viziers do not have diablerie as an in-clan weakness, instead their weakness is their never ending pursuit of whatever they choose to pursue, leaving everything else to fall to the way side.

My original intent was for the Assamite character only to be able to diablerize certain weaker Kindred during dialogue IF their Humanity was low enough. Hearing some of the protests about this makes me think twice about this idea and no other diablerie idea I’ve heard so far is possible for me from a technical standpoint.

Also as fun as running around diablerizing everyone may seem, I want TFN to be an expansion that stays true to the lore of VtM and to what Troika has already built for Bloodlines. I want this mod to be taken seriously so inventing our own rules just for the sake of doing so doesn’t seem to be a good idea for our goals.

The more time goes on and the more great ideas we have and work to accomplish, the more I’m thinking about ditching the diablerie idea altogether. Maybe we can revisit this idea once some of the other ideas are implemented and everyone has had a chance to play the game and get a better idea what we’re trying to accomplish.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:01 am

I understand, thank you for reading
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PostSubject: I still think   Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:13 am

I still think that diablerie should be allowed... in any vampires to give freedom to the player , but you would have to face the consequences of your dark deeds... how about that? that would change the course of the history sakosako
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:20 am

Tony, they didnt ditched the idea yet. But current diablerie is impossible technically(scripts, etc..)
Also, they are focusing on the main aspects of TFN expansion, and diablerie isnt one of them. After the main project has been released, who knows?
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:22 am

Again, we can visit the diablerie idea again once we get the initial game out to the public. I want you guys and everyone else to play TFN before making any more decisions about the diablerie idea. You may end up playing TFN and say “You know what, we don’t need diablerie anymore, we like how it is.” or you may say “Yes we still want diablerie as an option and now that I’ve seen what TFN is truly about here’s how I think you should go about it.”

Sound good?
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:37 am

Sad


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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:14 pm

My opinion is that if Zero decides to implement diablerie he should do it professionally like the rest of the mod. Diablerizing vampires for XP sounds too much as an MMO. And most of the MMOs have RPG elements close to 0.
The only cool thing about diablerie is the consequences that you will have to deal with.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:57 pm

Really, Yami? I don't see how diablerie is more MMO than RPG.
I see it kinda like Oblivion's Infamy = you get better things, but worse reactions from people.
And i believe Zero should do profisionally, i never asked a half-assed diablerie.
That's why i understand when he says he won't be using it on the 1.0 release, because it would take longer to release and everyone's hyped about playing it soon Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:51 am

The only point of commiting diablerie is to actually diablerieze a powerful vampire - some of the bosses in the game. And as someone mentioned before a diableriezer in LA will pretty much cause all the faction leaders (except the Sabbat ones) to unite and destroy you.
That means that diableriezing a thing-blood or a normal sabbat vampire is not only utterly stupid but suicidal as well. So I don't understand how you imagine a game where you are going to diablerieze most of your enemies so that you can gain a few extra xp.

The only way I see diablerie is to put it in the very last stages of the game and it should lead to a new "me vs everyone/ join the Sabbat" ending.

PS: In my opinion trying to make Bloodlines look and function like Oblivion will be the biggest mistake ever.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:20 am

Sad


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